For the past 8 months, or so, I've been working on a project to create a Linux-compatible kernel in nothing but Rust and assembly. I finally feel as though I have enough written that I'd like to share it with the community!
I'm currently targeting the ARM64 arch, as that's what I know best. It runs on qemu as well as various dev boards that I've got lying around (pi4, jetson nano, AMD Kria, imx8, etc). It has enough implemented to run most BusyBox commands on the console.
Major things that are missing at the moment: decent FS driver (only fat32 RO at the moment), and no networking support.
Cool project, congrats. I like the idea with libkernel which makes debugging easier before going to "hardware". It's like the advantages of a microkernel achievable in a monolithic kernel, without the huge size of LKL, UML or rump kernels. Isn't Rust async/awat depending on runtime and OS features? Using it in the kernel sounds like an complex bootstrap challenge.
Rust's async-await is executor-agnostic and runs entirely in userspace. It is just syntax-sugar for Futures as state machines, where "await points" are your states.
An executor (I think this is what you meant by runtime) is nothing special and doesn't need to be tied to OS features at all. You can poll and run futures in a single thread. It's just something that holds and runs futures to completion.
Not very different from an OS scheduler, except it is cooperative instead of preemptive. It's a drop in the ocean of kernel complexities.
Yeah, for example embassy-rs is an RTOS that uses rust async on tiny microcontrollers. You can hook task execution up to a main loop and interrupts pretty easily. (And RTIC is another, more radically simple version which also uses async but just runs everything in interrupt handlers and uses the interrupt priority and nesting capability of most micros to do the scheduling)
Ok, I see. I spent a lot of time with .Net VMs, where you cannot simply separate await from the heavy machinery that runs it. I now understand that in a kernel context, you don't need a complex runtime like Tokio. But you still need a way to wake the executor up when hardware does something (like a disk interrupt); but this indeed is not a runtime dependency.
There’s got to be some complexity within the executor implementation though I imagine as I believe you have to suspend and resume execution of the calling thread which can be non-trivial.
I’m aware; you’re not adding new information. I think you’re handwaving the difficulty of implementing work stealing in the kernel (interrupts and whatnot) + the mechanics of suspending/resuming the calling thread which isn’t as simple within the kernel as it is in userspace. eg you have to save all the register state at a minimum but it has to be integrated into the scheduler because the suspension has to pick a next task to execute and resume the register state for. On top of that you’ve got the added difficulty of doing this with work stealing (if you want good performance) and coordinating other CPUs/migrating threads between CPUs. Now you can use non interruptible sections but you really want to minimize those if you care about performance if I recall correctly.
Anyway - as I said. Implementing even a basic executor within the kernel (at least for something more involved than a single CPU machine) is more involved, especially if you care about getting good performance (and threading 100% comes up here as an OS concept so claiming it doesn’t belies a certain amount of unawareness of how kernels work internally and how they handle syscalls).
No. I am adding new information but I think you are stuck on your initial idea.
There's no work stealing. Async-await is cooperative multitasking. There is no suspending or resuming a calling thread. There is no saving register state. There is not even a thread.
I will re-reiterate: async-await is just a state machine and Futures are just async values you can poll.
I'm sure moss has an actual preemptive scheduler for processes, but it's completely unrelated to its internal usage of async-await.
This has been a real help! The ability to easily verify the behavior of certain pieces of code (especially mem management code) must have saved me hours of debugging.
Regarding the async code, sibling posts have addressed this. However, if you want to get a taste of how this is implemented in Moss look at src/sched/waker.rs, src/sched/mod.rs, src/sched/uspc_ret.rs. These files cover the majority of the executor implementation.
Somewhere there is a dark timeline where the BSDs won, there are 50 commercial and open source variants all with their own kernel and userland. The only promise of interoperability is in extremely ossified layers like POSIX. There is, however, something terrible gathering its strength. A colossus. The great Shade that will eat the net. In boardroom meetings across the land, CTOs whisper its name and tremble... "OS/2."
because otherwise big tech companies will take it and modify and release hardware with it without releasing patches etc? Basically being selfish and greedy?
Really neat. Do you have any specific long term goals for it? Eg, provide an OS distro (using Linux drivers?) to provide memory safety for security-critical contexts?
Also, are there any opportunities to make this kernel significantly faster than Linux’s?
Eventually, It'd be amazing to use Moss as my daily driver OS. That means targeting the specific hardware that I have, but in doing so, I hope to build up enough of the abstractions to allow easier porting of hardware.
A more concrete mid-term goal is for it to be 'self-hosting'. By that I mean you could edit the code, download dependencies and compile the kernel from within Moss.
While it's very legitimate question, the answer is between the lines in the README, and it mostly means that there is a user space binary compatibility for everything that is implemented.
It might seem obscure, but syscalls to get access to kernel requires a tight integration on compilation and linking. So this is their approach and this is where the compatibility really means something : since you can cross compile on another machine, they don't need the full toolchain right away. Just compile your code on a linux machine, and run it there. You're at the mercy of all missing kernel API implementations, but it looks like a very good strategy if you aim is to code a kernel, as you only have to focus on actual syscalls implementation without getting distracted by toolchain.
Hello!
For the past 8 months, or so, I've been working on a project to create a Linux-compatible kernel in nothing but Rust and assembly. I finally feel as though I have enough written that I'd like to share it with the community!
I'm currently targeting the ARM64 arch, as that's what I know best. It runs on qemu as well as various dev boards that I've got lying around (pi4, jetson nano, AMD Kria, imx8, etc). It has enough implemented to run most BusyBox commands on the console.
Major things that are missing at the moment: decent FS driver (only fat32 RO at the moment), and no networking support.
More info is on the github readme.
https://github.com/hexagonal-sun/moss
Comments & contributions welcome!
Cool project, congrats. I like the idea with libkernel which makes debugging easier before going to "hardware". It's like the advantages of a microkernel achievable in a monolithic kernel, without the huge size of LKL, UML or rump kernels. Isn't Rust async/awat depending on runtime and OS features? Using it in the kernel sounds like an complex bootstrap challenge.
Rust's async-await is executor-agnostic and runs entirely in userspace. It is just syntax-sugar for Futures as state machines, where "await points" are your states.
An executor (I think this is what you meant by runtime) is nothing special and doesn't need to be tied to OS features at all. You can poll and run futures in a single thread. It's just something that holds and runs futures to completion.
Not very different from an OS scheduler, except it is cooperative instead of preemptive. It's a drop in the ocean of kernel complexities.
Yeah, for example embassy-rs is an RTOS that uses rust async on tiny microcontrollers. You can hook task execution up to a main loop and interrupts pretty easily. (And RTIC is another, more radically simple version which also uses async but just runs everything in interrupt handlers and uses the interrupt priority and nesting capability of most micros to do the scheduling)
Interesting references, thanks. Moss seems to be doing the same thing as Embassy.
Ok, I see. I spent a lot of time with .Net VMs, where you cannot simply separate await from the heavy machinery that runs it. I now understand that in a kernel context, you don't need a complex runtime like Tokio. But you still need a way to wake the executor up when hardware does something (like a disk interrupt); but this indeed is not a runtime dependency.
EDIT: just found this source which explains in detail how it works: https://os.phil-opp.com/async-await/
There’s got to be some complexity within the executor implementation though I imagine as I believe you have to suspend and resume execution of the calling thread which can be non-trivial.
You can implement an executor with threading to achieve parallelism, but it's not a fundamental characteristic of Future executors.
To reiterate: an executor is just something that runs Futures to completion, and Futures are just things that you can poll for a value.
See sibling comments for additional details.
I’m aware; you’re not adding new information. I think you’re handwaving the difficulty of implementing work stealing in the kernel (interrupts and whatnot) + the mechanics of suspending/resuming the calling thread which isn’t as simple within the kernel as it is in userspace. eg you have to save all the register state at a minimum but it has to be integrated into the scheduler because the suspension has to pick a next task to execute and resume the register state for. On top of that you’ve got the added difficulty of doing this with work stealing (if you want good performance) and coordinating other CPUs/migrating threads between CPUs. Now you can use non interruptible sections but you really want to minimize those if you care about performance if I recall correctly.
Anyway - as I said. Implementing even a basic executor within the kernel (at least for something more involved than a single CPU machine) is more involved, especially if you care about getting good performance (and threading 100% comes up here as an OS concept so claiming it doesn’t belies a certain amount of unawareness of how kernels work internally and how they handle syscalls).
No. I am adding new information but I think you are stuck on your initial idea.
There's no work stealing. Async-await is cooperative multitasking. There is no suspending or resuming a calling thread. There is no saving register state. There is not even a thread.
I will re-reiterate: async-await is just a state machine and Futures are just async values you can poll.
I'm sure moss has an actual preemptive scheduler for processes, but it's completely unrelated to its internal usage of async-await.
See embassy in sibling comments.
This has been a real help! The ability to easily verify the behavior of certain pieces of code (especially mem management code) must have saved me hours of debugging.
Regarding the async code, sibling posts have addressed this. However, if you want to get a taste of how this is implemented in Moss look at src/sched/waker.rs, src/sched/mod.rs, src/sched/uspc_ret.rs. These files cover the majority of the executor implementation.
Impressive work! Do you have any goals, other than learning and having fun?
Also how does it's design compare with Redox and Asterinas?
shouldn't this be a ShowHN?
Very cool project! I do have to admit - looking far, far into the future - I am a bit scared of a Linux ABI-compatible kernel with an MIT license.
I agree, I know a lot of people aren't huge fans of it but in the long run Linux being GPL2 was a huge factor in its success.
Too late? https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/linuxemu/
Somewhere there is a dark timeline where the BSDs won, there are 50 commercial and open source variants all with their own kernel and userland. The only promise of interoperability is in extremely ossified layers like POSIX. There is, however, something terrible gathering its strength. A colossus. The great Shade that will eat the net. In boardroom meetings across the land, CTOs whisper its name and tremble... "OS/2."
Why?
because otherwise big tech companies will take it and modify and release hardware with it without releasing patches etc? Basically being selfish and greedy?
Really neat. Do you have any specific long term goals for it? Eg, provide an OS distro (using Linux drivers?) to provide memory safety for security-critical contexts?
Also, are there any opportunities to make this kernel significantly faster than Linux’s?
Eventually, It'd be amazing to use Moss as my daily driver OS. That means targeting the specific hardware that I have, but in doing so, I hope to build up enough of the abstractions to allow easier porting of hardware.
A more concrete mid-term goal is for it to be 'self-hosting'. By that I mean you could edit the code, download dependencies and compile the kernel from within Moss.
In what extent is this compatible with Linux?
Could I swap Ubuntu's or Android's kernel with this, while keeping those OSes bootable?
While it's very legitimate question, the answer is between the lines in the README, and it mostly means that there is a user space binary compatibility for everything that is implemented.
It might seem obscure, but syscalls to get access to kernel requires a tight integration on compilation and linking. So this is their approach and this is where the compatibility really means something : since you can cross compile on another machine, they don't need the full toolchain right away. Just compile your code on a linux machine, and run it there. You're at the mercy of all missing kernel API implementations, but it looks like a very good strategy if you aim is to code a kernel, as you only have to focus on actual syscalls implementation without getting distracted by toolchain.
Just a hobby, won’t be big and professional like Linux?
;-)
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