I've been using Payload for 18 months. They're only recently (with the upcoming v3 release) really piggy-backing on Next.js' server and routing. Before that, it was "just" a really nice headless CMS built on Node/TypeScript.
This was obviously posted in the wake of the WordPress drama, but I landed on Payload while feeling stagnant after 10+ years building on WordPress. Everything else I was doing was 100% TypeScript, my entire professional career had been working with metadata driven data structure, I felt right at home with Payload.
It's just enough structure (full admin area, API, GraphQL) to make scaffolding a basic site (with authentication) quite easy. I had built an app using Next 13 before Payload began integrating directly and using the local API (versus making HTTP calls to a server endpoint) is very clean. It feels like WordPress (i.e. you're editing "client" code on the "server") but with a LOT less cruft.
Because it's headless, anything goes on the front end. One big reason that WP got so big was because of the theming capabilities. Payload has extensibility by way of plugins, but it's (obviously...) not as robust as what's available in the WP plugin repo. It'll be interesting to see how these alternatives fare against the more prescriptive tools like Ghost (which does support theming, but does not support custom fields in any way, shape, or form).
That being said, I'm all in on Payload moving forward. If you're curious, go straight to the v3 beta -- it's very close to release and plenty stable, in my opinion. Happy to answer questions.
(Not affiliated with Payload, just a big admirer of their work)
How easy/hard would you consider the amount of work needed to create a ecommerce for digital products using Payload? I'm currently using WP + Woo but the plugins that I'm using aren't flexible enough and I'm re-inventing some of them, so might as well re-invent some more and learn Next.
I tried to switch to this from keystonejs. Keystone’s documentation is painfully inconsistent with its library. I have lost entire days over it. but “it works.”
Was expecting more with payload but seems to be another buggy experience but with better UI.
Eagerly waiting for a player in this space that isn’t just developer-first but also developer-friendly.
If Payload is a framework or not is debatable. I think it's more like a data layer around a database for a any js app and an Admin Panel (that uses Next.js now). It might be called a framework for your own Headless CMS, because it is code first. So you basically code the panel and the data structure yourself.
React was a library before hooks. Now it is a framework and decides when your code runs, not you. And now it is a terrible framework with server components.
RSC was marked stable in Mid 2022 and this major change is still in the process of unfolding through the ecosystem, because of course these things take time. And even though react might be the future, I have a hard time understanding a client side framework that currently becomes more of a server side framework being stable.
By that standard, nothing is stable. New features are added to HTML, the Linux kernel, x86, PHP, etc all the time. In fact, building on top of higher level abstractions can sometime insulate your application from this change too.
"Framework" isn't really the best term for them to actually use to describe Payload. Its basically a tool for NextJS developers to quickly build a custom CMS. I'd think of it more like CMS-in-code than a framework.
The pitch alone on PayloadCMS shows that this is still a developer-focused CMS. Just look at the difference between the github page, the Payload website, and wordpress.org's landing. This is not purely a marketing difference but a strategic conversation.
I'm all about transitioning CMSes and yet WordPress has got the turnkey part of their open-source platform clear and easy to understand. You can self-host or choose a provider. Payload doesn't make that clear, it's either too dev-centric for running or wants you to "Schedule a Demo" (which is a way to capture enterprise dollars).
What about more consumer-friendly pitches and deployments? Any recommendations on that?
They do mention WP (Word Press)... I am confused. What exactly this does?
I get it takes care of content and they mention Stripe, so that is good. But is this WP compatible layer or this is accidental use of shorthand for something else?
It is more like those templates that people use to jumpstart sites, I think this can be very useful.
I don't want to sound too complainy over the free code you can get and examine yourself, maybe adding thumbnails of 3 templates would be fantastic.
Overall some clarity would be great, maybe developer should talk to someone outside his little circle and explain and see what they should include.
No, it's a Headless CMS, so no frontend themes and templates. They have an official demo page including a frontend, that you can base your work on: https://github.com/payloadcms/public-demo
If you are looking for a Wordpress-clickety click solution with templates, Payload is not a candidate.
I think any solution that does not use PHP will not replace WordPress for most users, unless WP itself stagnates. "Anyone" can install Word press on a cheap shared hosting device and get started. That's why I think a real WP alternative will need to be based on PHP (Laravel?)
I've been using Payload for 18 months. They're only recently (with the upcoming v3 release) really piggy-backing on Next.js' server and routing. Before that, it was "just" a really nice headless CMS built on Node/TypeScript.
This was obviously posted in the wake of the WordPress drama, but I landed on Payload while feeling stagnant after 10+ years building on WordPress. Everything else I was doing was 100% TypeScript, my entire professional career had been working with metadata driven data structure, I felt right at home with Payload.
It's just enough structure (full admin area, API, GraphQL) to make scaffolding a basic site (with authentication) quite easy. I had built an app using Next 13 before Payload began integrating directly and using the local API (versus making HTTP calls to a server endpoint) is very clean. It feels like WordPress (i.e. you're editing "client" code on the "server") but with a LOT less cruft.
Because it's headless, anything goes on the front end. One big reason that WP got so big was because of the theming capabilities. Payload has extensibility by way of plugins, but it's (obviously...) not as robust as what's available in the WP plugin repo. It'll be interesting to see how these alternatives fare against the more prescriptive tools like Ghost (which does support theming, but does not support custom fields in any way, shape, or form).
That being said, I'm all in on Payload moving forward. If you're curious, go straight to the v3 beta -- it's very close to release and plenty stable, in my opinion. Happy to answer questions.
(Not affiliated with Payload, just a big admirer of their work)
How easy/hard would you consider the amount of work needed to create a ecommerce for digital products using Payload? I'm currently using WP + Woo but the plugins that I'm using aren't flexible enough and I'm re-inventing some of them, so might as well re-invent some more and learn Next.
how does it compare to Django as far as battery-included goes
I tried to switch to this from keystonejs. Keystone’s documentation is painfully inconsistent with its library. I have lost entire days over it. but “it works.”
Was expecting more with payload but seems to be another buggy experience but with better UI.
Eagerly waiting for a player in this space that isn’t just developer-first but also developer-friendly.
What bugs did you run into? This sentiment is not shared by the Payload community that I've seen.
So let me get this straight... PayloadCMS is a framework, for Next.js which is a framework for the React framework.
Yo dawg, i heard you like frameworks!
A common misconception. React is a library.
These are examples for React frameworks: https://react.dev/learn/start-a-new-react-project#production...
Next.js is a React framework.
If Payload is a framework or not is debatable. I think it's more like a data layer around a database for a any js app and an Admin Panel (that uses Next.js now). It might be called a framework for your own Headless CMS, because it is code first. So you basically code the panel and the data structure yourself.
React started as a library.. at this point it has server side components, and a world of plugins.
As for anything that has patterns of building with, will argue it's a framework.
React is a FEBEFUIRT - a FrontEnd/BackEnd-Fluid UI RunTime.
> React is a library
Can a library have compiler?)
That's an optional step for JSX cross-compilation. It's a language plugin; nothing really to do with frameworks or libraries.
React was a library before hooks. Now it is a framework and decides when your code runs, not you. And now it is a terrible framework with server components.
Yes? I think this is great. IMO our goal should be to enable building higher-level abstractions on lower-level ones.
Sure, if the lower level is stable. Nothing in this chain is close to stable.
React is arguably quite stable?
RSC was marked stable in Mid 2022 and this major change is still in the process of unfolding through the ecosystem, because of course these things take time. And even though react might be the future, I have a hard time understanding a client side framework that currently becomes more of a server side framework being stable.
By that standard, nothing is stable. New features are added to HTML, the Linux kernel, x86, PHP, etc all the time. In fact, building on top of higher level abstractions can sometime insulate your application from this change too.
"Framework" isn't really the best term for them to actually use to describe Payload. Its basically a tool for NextJS developers to quickly build a custom CMS. I'd think of it more like CMS-in-code than a framework.
s/framework/abstraction/g
With that said, yep, I do like robust/stable and purposeful abstractions.
The pitch alone on PayloadCMS shows that this is still a developer-focused CMS. Just look at the difference between the github page, the Payload website, and wordpress.org's landing. This is not purely a marketing difference but a strategic conversation.
I'm all about transitioning CMSes and yet WordPress has got the turnkey part of their open-source platform clear and easy to understand. You can self-host or choose a provider. Payload doesn't make that clear, it's either too dev-centric for running or wants you to "Schedule a Demo" (which is a way to capture enterprise dollars).
What about more consumer-friendly pitches and deployments? Any recommendations on that?
Would have been nice to post when they released v3 as they are close.
i got excited seeing the post, because i thought v3 was released. For anyone who want's to know more about v3 here is a link: https://payloadcms.com/blog/30-beta-install-payload-into-any...
They do mention WP (Word Press)... I am confused. What exactly this does?
I get it takes care of content and they mention Stripe, so that is good. But is this WP compatible layer or this is accidental use of shorthand for something else?
It is more like those templates that people use to jumpstart sites, I think this can be very useful.
I don't want to sound too complainy over the free code you can get and examine yourself, maybe adding thumbnails of 3 templates would be fantastic.
Overall some clarity would be great, maybe developer should talk to someone outside his little circle and explain and see what they should include.
They seem to recently position themselves as a Wordpress alternative. There is a blog post about migration from Wordpress to Payload including code: https://payloadcms.com/blog/how-to-migrate-from-wordpress-to...
No, it's a Headless CMS, so no frontend themes and templates. They have an official demo page including a frontend, that you can base your work on: https://github.com/payloadcms/public-demo
If you are looking for a Wordpress-clickety click solution with templates, Payload is not a candidate.
I think any solution that does not use PHP will not replace WordPress for most users, unless WP itself stagnates. "Anyone" can install Word press on a cheap shared hosting device and get started. That's why I think a real WP alternative will need to be based on PHP (Laravel?)
So it's a full stack framework for a full stack framework? Right...